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  • #163 Jul 25, 2019

    Their is no point in mending if you remove basic EXP farms.

    I don't get the whole anti-AFK fish farm idea. I repair my tools overnight and then work the next day and repeat. I am having fun and removing this free EXP would simply make the game way more annoying with it comes to difficulty. I would need to constantly mine to repair my tools or try to build some big EXP farm from day 5 with no resources.

    I know you think you're being inclusive by adding a gamerule or world option or that adding an option would better fit a "sandbox game", but this kind of compromise is not a real solution, it's avoiding the problem.

    If we can logically deduce that AFK Fishing Farms are actually balanced, immersive and fit the game's rules and lore, then there is no reason why we should make a gamerule to remove them. If on the other hand AFK Fish Farms are unbalanced and don't fit in Minecraft at all, there is no reason why this feature should remain in the game. Even if it didn't fall under the term "exploit", which it does, it definitely falls under the same category as being able to quick-shoot multiple crossbows.

    (Also, don't forget the fact that a gamerule to unite the community would ironically divide the community into pro-AFK Fishing and anti-AFK Fishing servers. The best way to unite the community around the game is to make them play the same game...)

    Now, if AFK Fishing Farms were removed in such a way that map makers might use it, that would be a good way to use a gamerule. That being said, given the changes that have been suggested for fixing this exploit issue, I don't see a need for this gamerule. Gamerules should not be added just for minor game design politics, because these politics change over time.

    - An enableFishingXP gamerule seems bizarre and out of place. Why isn't there an enableWalkingXP or an enableEatingFoodXP? I'm not a fan of moving the standard such that "Oh well you added a gamerule to enable XP rewards for this random feature, why not this one?"

    - The ability to enable/disable certain enchantments on certain tools... well that actually sounds pretty useful! However, I don't think that falls into the realm of gamerules. Perhaps this could be a part of data packs?

    - Customizing the number of blocks of water a fishing rod needs to find before it gives fish seems like a weird one. I guess it might fit as a gamerule categorically, but I also think the only use people would get out of it is specifically to build AFK Fish Farms.

    - As for whatever Ptolemy suggested with the controls, those almost definitely do not fall into the realm of gamerules.

    Citation first, then I'll be happy to take back any statement I made about this being an unintended feature though. I will say, however, that this only means Mojang needs to hire a better game design team if this is how loosely they treat balance.

    Here is my solution.

    Give servers the ability to disable AFK fishing

    Nerf the drop rates of enchanted books (25 - 50% less often).

    It isn't a bad exploit. Every MC youtuber I watch uses it early game to quickly get the resources and tools they need to start building real farms and fast EXP farms. Its helpful and I can't see why removing it would do any good.

    Last edited by Leed: Jul 25, 2019

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  • #164 Jul 26, 2019

    What's the point of using an exploit to... build more farms? And the point of building more farms is to... build more farms? Like a base building mobile game?

    I think we've hit a fundamental divide in what we believe Minecraft to be. Because when I see the words, "survival mode" I personally expect to play a game about surviving. But maybe I'm wrong.

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  • #166 Jul 26, 2019

    Nearly 7 years ago 1,4,2 drops and the primitive afk fishing machine was born. People were calling foul, because a person could gain exp fast and not be anywhere near their computers for periods of time. Essentially doing nothing to get something. It was Minecraft news that shook multiple forums. No one cared they were getting fish. Obvious, I know.

    Nearly 6 years ago 1.7.2 drops and a massive change happened. Treasure added including enchanted books. The masses went at it with "You should only be able to find (saddles, nametags, enchanted books, enchanted rods) in actual treasure chest." However a lot of people realized they also added junk to up the random gamble it was to fish. Also, the drops of fish and junk were high compared to the rest. I believe it still is, just not the same numbers.


    Nearly 3 and 1/2 years ago 1.9 drops and mending became a thing. Afk fish farms now could be extended and the new book would become exploited due to other farms as would not fit the aim of extending use of tools, but become virtually indestructible. The outcry was loud and long. Some of those same people I imagine are still on about it today that were then.

    The same arguments being made today in the present, have been made before. You want this to change? I suggest new material. I also suggest making actual ways of fixing it, then to just argue whether it is an exploit, or if you like it or not. Also, trying to prove the worthiness of an item to a person whom sees no value in a particular item, isn't making a point. If mending wasn't backed by exploited exp farms or farmables, the value of mending would be low as it's intended feature of over time repairs. You know what item is rare and worthwhile to me? A book with Protection IV. I am sure someone out there gets it more than I do. Luckily, its a common enchant when directing enchanting as piece of armor on the table. Otherwise, I'd have way more mending than protection enchants.

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  • #167 Jul 26, 2019

    I mean how did this thread even become a thing. It was a blanket statement saying it was bad. I remember when suggestions here had to have an outlined idea for implementing or fixing things followed with ideas and/or steps to improve it. It mitigated most arguing and actually talked about the real suggestion.

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  • #168 Jul 26, 2019

    Here is my suggestion:

    https://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-java-edition/suggestions/2895161-fishing-overhaul

    However, the simple fact I've realized is the quickest and most controversial suggestions get the most feedback, while smaller yet simple suggestions get far less, and larger complex suggestions are rarely read in their entirety. But I encourage you to read mine or any other fishing overhaul (there are a few older ones, do a search on the forum) and reply to that. I agree that this endless debate is going no where.

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  • #169 Jul 26, 2019

    I never said it was pointless. What I am saying is that it can give some good items like a good bow or fishing rod, but you only need one of each. Any gained from their on out is a waste of space.

    As I said earlier, the only pro to AFK fishing is the EXP for mending tools, a good book once in a while, and maybe a stack of fish to cook if you need it. That is it.

    Good books, food, and XP which would otherwise require skill or grind to attain, but have now been granted to the player in exchange for keeping their computer on all night.

    Why should the game encourage AFKing at all regardless of what items are given?

    It is simply not a big deal. Considering I just spent only 2 hours today building a mob farm that gets be 9,000+ drops per hour, it is obvious that AFK fishing is nowhere near game breaking.


    You keep using other farms as an example as if there's some kind of arbitrary limit which separates "good AFK farms" and "bad AFK farms", but you've never actually defined this limit.

    Honestly, it has got to the point that sand is more vulnerable to me then all of the AFK fishing books I get. My base is 2,000 blocks from the nearest desert and I need a ton of sand for a project. I simply don't need anymore books since the mismatched enchantments doesn't allow me to put it on my Armour or I don't have enough levels to add them anyways.


    This is anecdotal evidence. At the same time, I could easily give hypothetical examples of where AFK Fish Farms would come in very handy.

    Every MC world and play through is too unique to accuse something of being a exploit without mountains of evidence.

    An exploit has nothing to do with the uniqueness of a Minecraft world or playthrough.

    Even though I get a ton of books, I simply do not need mostly all of them which makes them worthless.

    On the other hand, someone who needs a very specific enchantment from that wide selection now has an incredibly high chance of getting that enchantment for free.

    There is no point in mending if you remove basic EXP farms.

    You assume that XP Farms are the only way to get mass XP. There are others: smelting large quantities of cheap items is one way, for example.

    Not only that, but Mending without mass XP farms can still be used to just slow down the process of your tool's decay. This is especially effective with Weapons and Fishing Rods who's sole job gives them XP to repair themselves.

    I don't get the whole anti-AFK fish farm idea. I repair my tools overnight and then work the next day and repeat. I am having fun and removing this free EXP would simply make the game way more annoying with it comes to difficulty. I would need to constantly mine to repair my tools or try to build some big EXP farm from day 5 with no resources.

    You would need to mine for resources because the game is called "Minecraft".

    What separates you and me is that I actually get the AFK Fish Farm idea and the idea of Farms in general. I've watched some of the Hermitcraft series and I understand the desire to just skip half of the "annoying" aspects of this survival game like Hunger, Tool Decay and even Hostile Mobs, then turning the game into just two challenges: collect resources, clear terrain and build buildings.

    The thing is, though, the game is not just a collecting resources and building buildings simulator. If you wanted it to be that, I'm sure mods exist to fulfill that fantasy and commands can almost definitely do that, but the vanilla game has aspects of survival, adventure, and combat mixed into the game.

    Quote from McNubberson (I couldn't be bothered to figure out how to quote properly since these responses are on two different pages)

    The same arguments being made today in the present, have been made before. You want this to change? I suggest new material. I also suggest making actual ways of fixing it, then to just argue whether it is an exploit, or if you like it or not.

    We have suggested "actual ways of fixing it" multiple times throughout this argument. In my first post, for example, I suggested bait items be required in order to fish. This is beyond the scope of the current suggestion, however, which simply suggests an end to AFK Fish Farms in general.

    Also, trying to prove the worthiness of an item to a person whom sees no value in a particular item, isn't making a point.

    He was the one who initiated an argument for AFK Fish Farms in that they should stay because they're not "super totally game-breaking", but even if what you were saying was true, then trying to convince us the non-worth of an item is also not making a point.

    I mean how did this thread even become a thing. It was a blanket statement saying it was bad. I remember when suggestions here had to have an outlined idea for implementing or fixing things followed with ideas and/or steps to improve it. It mitigated most arguing and actually talked about the real suggestion.

    A valid point, but from what we've seen perhaps it's better that this suggestion was made anyway because if someone were to suggest actual ideas, people would attack them for getting rid of AFK Fish Farming instead of critiquing the ideas.

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  • #170 Jul 27, 2019

    Here is my suggestion:

    https://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-java-edition/suggestions/2895161-fishing-overhaul

    However, the simple fact I've realized is the quickest and most controversial suggestions get the most feedback, while smaller yet simple suggestions get far less, and larger complex suggestions are rarely read in their entirety. But I encourage you to read mine or any other fishing overhaul (there are a few older ones, do a search on the forum) and reply to that. I agree that this endless debate is going no where.

    I've been there mate. Said it was generally a good idea. I just didn't like it had some focus on the afk fishing aspect, because then that would be the focal point, and detract from a really good idea.

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  • #171 Jul 27, 2019

    We have suggested "actual ways of fixing it" multiple times throughout this argument. In my first post, for example, I suggested bait items be required in order to fish. This is beyond the scope of the current suggestion, however, which simply suggests an end to AFK Fish Farms in general.

    I was suggesting in a different thread.

    He was the one who initiated an argument for AFK Fish Farms in that they should stay because they're not "super totally game-breaking", but even if what you were saying was true, then trying to convince us the non-worth of an item is also not making a point.


    This was in general.

    A valid point, but from what we've seen perhaps it's better that this suggestion was made anyway because if someone were to suggest actual ideas, people would attack them for getting rid of AFK Fish Farming instead of critiquing the ideas.


    They have been suggested before, without the arguments. I'd say see fishg's thread, but I was notified you already had because I've already said generally, I like it. I hope it polishes up. Also, if they cannot take it, maybe the internet is a bad place.

    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."

    I've been debated, mocked, and still kept on trucking. All I did was defend Mojang's decision to keep it all these years. As much as I detest Iron farms, I'll go to bat for them too.

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  • #173 Jul 27, 2019

    Their is no point in mending if you remove basic EXP farms.

    Really? I do not use XP farms at all yet I have absolutely no issues spending far more XP than you have to with Mending - currently, I'm playing on an old world where I used an Efficiency V, Fortune III, Unbreaking III diamond pickaxe for all mining while caving (aside from using a Silk Touch pickaxe on Ender chests and emerald ore). How much does it cost to repair?

    That's 1406 XP under the pre-1.8 leveling system - for a measly 390 durability; even with Unbreaking III it costs 0.9 XP per use, and since I had 40 levels at the time I spent about 400 more XP than if I'd just hit level 37 - or 1.16 XP per use. For comparison, any Mending item gains 2 durability per XP picked up while using it; even with the maximum of 6 held/worn items the cost per use is 0.75 XP, or 5/6 the cost, and this XP repairs all 6 items simultaneously (I have to spend additional XP to repair my other items; items that I don't use while caving, like my Efficiency V, Unbreaking III axe, are relatively not used much and can easily be repaired with whatever surplus levels I have, or with Mending, holding it while taking ores out of furnaces). I've even played for a bit in 1.9+ to see if Mending was as good as it sounded, and it indeed was, even with a lot less mobs around than in my 1.6.4/modded worlds (I use my main pickaxe far more than any other item, or damage taken by armor, so it is the limiting factor as far as sustainability goes, thus with 1.9's Mending more mobs will give me more XP to maintain it).

    Not only that, in my own version I added diamond-replacement items (diamond was nerfed with these items having similar stats in most ways) which are even more expensive - so much that I increased the anvil cost limit to 49 levels (just for these items, otherwise it is still 39):

    48 levels is 3012 XP under the pre-1.8 leveling system:

    The only difference from a vanilla diamond sword (1.6.4) is that it has 3 times the durability, but since you can only repair it with one unit at a time instead of another sword the durability restored per repair is only 3/4 as high; the diamond sword costs as low as 38 levels or 1517 XP for a full repair (using a slightly damaged sword to take advantage of the durability bonus, which only applies when repairing with an item) - this means that my amethyst sword is 8 times more expensive, costing a staggering 12048 XP to fully repair it (it is still entirely practical to use though - assuming 2 hits to kill a mob and 5 XP per mob (which is slightly low due to mobs with equipment adding 1-3 XP per piece; skeletons average 7 because of this) and 1171 durability/4684 uses restored per repair you get 11710 back from the mobs killed by the next partial repair, a profit margin of nearly 4:1, leaving enough to repair armor. For comparison, the diamond sword has a profit margin of more than 10:1):

    Here are the costs for the items I sued while caving in TMCWv4:

    Max cost for amethyst items = 49 levels, other items = 39

    Sword: Sharpness V, Knockback II, Unbreaking III, Mending - 48 levels (amethyst)
    Main pickaxe: Efficiency V, Unbreaking III, Mending - 43 levels (amethyst)
    Ender chest pickaxe: Efficiency V, Silk Touch, Unbreaking III, Mending - 34 levels (diamond)
    Shears: Efficiency V, Silk Touch, Unbreaking III, Mending - 29 levels
    Bow: Power V, Infinity, Unbreaking III, Mending - 33 levels
    Chestplate+leggings: Protection IV, Mending - 35 levels (amethyst)
    Boots: Protection IV, Feather Falling IV, Mending - 44 levels (amethyst)

    All are for one unit, except for shears and bow. Cost without Mending is 8 levels less for an item repair and 9 less for a unit repair.

    Yet, I still have no issues getting enough XP:

    Over eight thousand XP in a single play session - all from mining ores and killing naturally spawned mobs, and that's not even a record (excluding the Ender Dragon, or the time I gained 13,000 XP from mining quartz, which is how I get the XP I need to make my gear). I've averaged more than 5,400 XP per play session since playing on this world again; in another world I averaged over 5,300 and gained 2/3 of a million XP over the 121 sessions I spent caving.

    This indicates that I play the game as it was supposed to be played - it is sure interesting that the people who'd rather make automated farms instead of doing the "mine" in "Mine"craft depend on XP farms.

    Also, an easy way to nerf AFK farms (fishing in particular) is to make Mending simply set the prior work penalty to 0, as I've done in my own version (as a direct replacement for renaming, which is why I was repairing a Mending sword in the anvil) and revert the anvil repair system back to the old one (perhaps with some tweaks to reduce the costs a bit, since it does cost a lot more to reach a given level than before, as I did to offset the +8 level cost of adding Mending to an item), where the cost to repair an item depends on its quality (more/better enchantments and durability restored) and you have to mine to collect resources for repairs (at least diamonds; trading won't work for items that require diamonds to repair unless you want to grind them down to a low durability. Of course, my amethyst item can't be traded for, only mined or the very rare mob drops).

    Another way to nerf fishing farms (in addition to making Mending require manual repairs) is to make Luck of the Sea be required to get any treasure from fishing, preventing the use of unenchanted fishing rods, which could otherwise still be used, just not as efficiently; it could also be buffed to give a higher change of treasure to offset the requirement to have it.

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  • #175 Jul 28, 2019

    I was suggesting in a different thread.

    Okay, done.

    I find that hard to believe when you posted this specific reply during a long conversation with someone making the argument you claimed was "useless"

    They have been suggested before, without the arguments. I'd say see fishg's thread, but I was notified you already had because I've already said generally, I like it. I hope it polishes up. Also, if they cannot take it, maybe the internet is a bad place.

    "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take."


    Okay.

    I've been debated, mocked, and still kept on trucking. All I did was defend Mojang's decision to keep it all these years. As much as I detest Iron farms, I'll go to bat for them too.


    This is an argument... where you debate... so I would imagine you've been debated in this thread, but okay. As for mocked, I apologize if at any point I've gotten frustrated enough to make some off-color comments.

    Also, why do you need to defend Iron Farms or AFK Fish Farms if you acknowledge their lack of balance? Why do you feel the need to defend the freedom to effectively turn Survival Mode into some weird combination between Survival Mode and Creative Mode that doesn't need to exist?

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  • #177 Jul 29, 2019

    Your statement actually supports my case. So not only is this a tedious, monotonous grindy mechanic, it also very heavily relies on luck. Justifying OPness from "effort" by minimizing the chance of obtaining a godly item to 1 out of 1 thousand is still broken, period. While luck can make an aspect of a game exciting, like a random encounter of a dungeon. But luck in AFK fishing is just tedious and broken, no one should get a very big advantage over pure "luck".

    Perhaps we should make AFK loot to be consistent then instead of removing it completely, hmm?

    But if you get those saddles from exploring, or defeating raids. Suddenly the value of that "worthless" item suddenly becomes a worthwhile treasure you can at least keep. That's the broken thing about AFK fishing.

    Clownfish can be useful for water breathing potions thought. Name Tags can be useful if you don't want a certain mob to despawn or for your pet. Actually, your statement made me even realize that the existence of AFK fishing can greatly diminish the value of the variety of Minecraft items, which makes them even more harmful to the game.

    And that's the thing! AFK fish farm broken nature made what's supposed to be a cherished rare item you used on special pets, animals, or any mob into a worthless junk that yu excessively get, thus reinforcing my previous point. :)


    Don't think yourself clever for repeating the same argument (that is invalid) over and over. Just because you made something hard to acquire, doesn't make its value increase or decrease. If a Golden Dirt which does trivial stuff like making the player able to have gold-colored username is added, that won't encourage the player to travel thousands of block to acquire those items.

    I mean you're getting what is essentially a level 30 enchantment from doing nothing. So it's still broken.


    Have you seen how long it took thought? You can't say what's broken and what's not.

    You can grindstone that enchanted items for a hefty amount of experience. You haven't even shown what's the enchantment are for it to claim it's junk.

    That's the fault of Mojang stubbornly adding stuff without the consideration of other mechanics.

    The fact that it relies very heavily on luck and allows you to access powerful items makes AFK fishing a broken mechanic.


    Just like what the founding fathers said "You can't have everything, sometimes bad things can come unexpectedly"

    With all due respect, you can't just give what you think is a "powerful" item and concludes that because you didn't get said specific item makes them balanced. That's like saying finding a diamond block randomly in bonus chest is balanced because it's not enough to craft an entire set of armor and enchant it.


    I think he just tries to counterargue you by saying the AFK fish farm loot isn't that big of a deal.


    If we can logically deduce that AFK Fishing Farms are actually balanced, immersive and fit the game's rules and lore, then there is no reason why we should make a gamerule to remove them. If on the other hand AFK Fish Farms are unbalanced and don't fit in Minecraft at all, there is no reason why this feature should remain in the game. Even if it didn't fall under the term "exploit", which it does, it definitely falls under the same category as being able to quick-shoot multiple crossbows.

    Thing is, Minecraft doesn't have lore. There are multiple ones, yes, but those are the community's interpretation. Maybe the reason why the 1 block water makes fishing possible is that the item literally grown inside the water where previously they are actually micro-sized. Who knows?

    (Also, don't forget the fact that a gamerule to unite the community would ironically divide the community into pro-AFK Fishing and anti-AFK Fishing servers. The best way to unite the community around the game is to make them play the same game...)


    So why isn't there a divide between Players who use KeepInventory and not? Or those who use bonus chest or not. The community's already divided thanks to their dumb decision on releasing their game with too many engines.

    Now, if AFK Fishing Farms were removed in such a way that map makers might use it, that would be a good way to use a gamerule. That being said, given the changes that have been suggested for fixing this exploit issue, I don't see a need for this gamerule. Gamerules should not be added just for minor game design politics, because these politics change over time.


    But AFK fishing loved by many people so that's not classified under "minor game politics"

    - An enableFishingXP gamerule seems bizarre and out of place. Why isn't there an enableWalkingXP or an enableEatingFoodXP? I'm not a fan of moving the standard such that "Oh well you added a gamerule to enable XP rewards for this random feature, why not this one?"


    Because those things you mentioned can be fixed using data packs?

    - The ability to enable/disable certain enchantments on certain tools... well that actually sounds pretty useful! However, I don't think that falls into the realm of gamerules. Perhaps this could be a part of data packs?

    - Customizing the number of blocks of water a fishing rod needs to find before it gives fish seems like a weird one. I guess it might fit as a gamerule categorically, but I also think the only use people would get out of it is specifically to build AFK Fish Farms.

    - As for whatever Ptolemy suggested with the controls, those almost definitely do not fall into the realm of gamerules.


    Gamerules has their obvious ups and downs but based on your statement it seems pretty logical on making AFK somewhat optional is the best way.

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  • #178 Jul 29, 2019

    This is an interesting manner, as I had very little knowledge of AFK Fishing with a Fishing Rod until the last two days, and I can see how cheap it is. I met somebody at work who admitted to setting up a contraption and rubberbanding his PS4 controller to AFK Fishing with a Mending Fishing Rod, which is broken, then I recieved a link to this thread by somebody else.

    When I think of AFK Fish Farms, a fishing rod was never involved, and the loot was limited to fish, ink sacs, bones, and scutes. No enchanted books, no 'trash' loot, no XP, just only what I mentioned above, and while not incredibly useful on a Survival World that is on Easy or Higher, it provides quite a bit of benefit on Peaceful worlds due to free bonemeal (Due to no skeletons spawning, and the composter providing it at a way slower rate). What do I mean? Well, the first design I am sharing was built for two reasons. One on Principal to prove a contraption could be built to do so, and two for bones on Peaceful Mode.

    As you can tell with the contraption, the Soul Sand throws the fish and other mobs up into the mechanism and then the flowing water leads the fish onto magma blocks to die, and then the hoppers at the end collect the fish and bones. Naturally other mobs sometimes find their way in, like Chickens and Pigs XD. On a Peaceful Setting, the only worlds that would have a benefit from this were pre Java 1.13 spawned worlds, so bonemeal could be collected in mass to spam on the ocean floor to spawn sea grass and corals; Underwater Terraforming. While the results are not the best on shore, building one of these in the middle of the ocean and AFKing would yield the best results.

    Then there is the second type of design that require at minimum alot of Magma on the Ocean Floor and a pair of Frost Walker Boots, and this design is meant for a quick bathroom break AFK, not long sessions, as you have to collect the stuff before it despawns. Naturally, you can add a beacon (You gotta be creative) or conduit, but they're not necessary as the Frost Walker Boots protect you from Magma Block damage, and the Magma Blocks restore your air so you don't drown, and on a non-peaceful difficulty, depending on how big the design is, if you're in the center, the magma blocks (As well as the conduit if you built one) will kill any hostile mob that comes your way.

    But for what was explained to me how the AFK Fishing that is described by using a Fishing Rod and a specific set up, it is almost like using a bot in my opinion and I would consider it an exploit versus the second type of examples that I have shown above that do not use a Fishing Rod. The first type of examples can be considered an exploit as it works similar to that of an Iron Farm in terms of end result, not to mention on a personal level I don't see a potential use for it in worlds spawn in during and beyond the Update Aquatic as they will have corals and sea grass in the ocean already.

    At least with the second type of examples, you have to collect the items yourself, and you really cannot AFK for too long without those items despawning. You also risk getting poisoned and damaged by Pufferfish with the second type of examples as well via AFKing if in a Warm Ocean.

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  • #179 Jul 29, 2019

    Thing is, Minecraft doesn't have lore. There are multiple ones, yes, but those are the community's interpretation. Maybe the reason why the 1 block water makes fishing possible is that the item literally grown inside the water where previously they are actually micro-sized. Who knows?

    Okay, but why would the item grow inside the water?

    Let's assume a different scenario. Suppose there's a glitch in an RPG game where an NPC that gives you a trivial item with buff or something is reset if you perform a very simple set of steps, allowing you to get an infinite amount of that item. You could explain away this with "Oh, he just has a large supply of that item", but there's no reason to assume that and it likely goes against what the developers had in mind.

    So why isn't there a divide between Players who use KeepInventory and not?

    I used to be a keepInventory guy. If I joined a server I would usually just deal with it, albeit I never really got invested in servers.

    I don't have actual numbers obviously, but I'd assume the audience that uses keepInventory tends to be very small, and it probably consists of either very young or very casual players. I also think you'd just be laughed out of a server if you told the owner you wanted keepInventory on, considering it'd just mark you as a noob who dies a lot.

    Also, I don't really support the use of keepInventory anymore and I don't think it's a legitimate way to play Survival Mode, but if your only goal is to have fun with Minecraft as a game engine, then party on. Same goes with mods and datapacks.

    Or those who use bonus chest or not.

    For one, Minecraft isn't like Age of Empires where getting a boost like that at the beginning of the game can change the course of the entire game.

    For two, again, I imagine the percentage of the community that absolutely needs a bonus chest at the beginning of the game is very small.

    The community's already divided thanks to their dumb decision on releasing their game with too many engines.

    True, but it's gotten better with the Bedrock Edition uniting a lot of the consoles and some of the PC players.

    Personally, I don't really think community division is that big of a problem, I just say this because people want to use gamerules as a "compromise" so the community won't be "divided."

    But AFK fishing loved by many people so that's not classified under "minor game politics"

    Okay fine, how about gamerules should never be added on the basis of any politics.

    Again, the correct solution to an issue is not a compromise, a compromise is just a solution to an argument around an issue.

    Because those things you mentioned can be fixed using data packs?

    Okay, but why is fishing special? Why can't every event in the game have an XP reward customizable by gamerules if one aspect is given this treatment?

    Gamerules has their obvious ups and downs but based on your statement it seems pretty logical on making AFK somewhat optional is the best way.


    I have no idea how to interpret this sentence based on the specific material you quoted. The start of the sentence seems to be about gamerules, but then the second part has to do with making AFK fishing optional.

    Maybe you meant: "Gamerules have their obvious ups and downs, but based on your statement it seems pretty logical they would be the best way to make AFK Fishing optional"

    If you meant that, I disagree and I think you should read what I said again. I do not want an enableAFKFishFarms gamerule, because it would be convoluted and it would only exist for minor political reasons.

    In addition, making a gamerule that configures settings X, Y and Z means that if Mojang tries to change how X, Y or Z work, now they have to work to make sure that legacy code exists so that when that gamerule is flicked on, it still produces results that the community obsessed over that functionality want.

    For example, suppose that an enableAFKFishFarms gamerule existed which made fishing require no bait, reward XP and allowed rods to have Mending. Now suppose that somewhere down the road, Mojang wants to change how Mending works which would break this gamerule's promised functionality.

    In order for the "enableAFKFishFarms" gamerule to remain functional, Mojang essentially has to keep the legacy functionality of Mending in the game and enable Fishing Rods to make use of that code specifically because of some community members would be "mad" if they couldn't AFK Fish. Now, an "oldMendingFunctionality" gamerule could make sense in this situation, but just a blanket "enableAFKFishFarms" rule presents problems for future additions to the game.

    Let's look at another example based on another popular divide: an "enableOldPVP" gamerule that allows swords to block, removed shields and half of 1.9 entirely would be another bad blanket statement that means Mojang is preserving swaths of old functionality hidden behind a gamerule with no customization. I used to be against a "disableCombatCooldown" gamerule, but nowadays I think it's an acceptable addition. I don't support it as a political compromise, I support it since it makes sense and could be useful for mapmakers.

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    My avatar is a texture from a small block game I made in Python. It's not very good and it probably won't work if you install it.

    I'm very alone in my Minecraft worlds as I don't have a very good internet connection to run a server. If you're like me, you might be interested in my Posse mod suggestion.

  • #180 Jul 29, 2019

    Citation first, then I'll be happy to take back any statement I made about this being an unintended feature though. I will say, however, that this only means Mojang needs to hire a better game design team if this is how loosely they treat balance.

    You may want to read who I was replying to because my post had nothing to do with AFK fishing.

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  • #182 Jul 30, 2019

    Honestly, if people's only excuse to remove the AFK Fishing is that it gives free EXP, then you might as well remove all of the mob farms. Especially Enderman farms since they give a lot of EXP. In fact, just remove EXP in general. We'll see how long that lasts.

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  • #183 Jul 30, 2019

    If everyone loves these farms, why not make them legit features in the game.

    How about a new, underwater dungeon, home to a "fishing spawner" which provides fish and treasure.

    You cannot expect a new player to know placing a bunch of trapdoors and pressure plates in a very certain configuration will grant the afk fishing techniques. So if it "doesn't matter" like everyone so claims-

    Make it legit.

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  • #184 Jul 30, 2019

    If everyone loves these farms, why not make them legit features in the game.

    How about a new, underwater dungeon, home to a "fishing spawner" which provides fish and treasure.

    You cannot expect a new player to know placing a bunch of trapdoors and pressure plates in a very certain configuration will grant the afk fishing techniques. So if it "doesn't matter" like everyone so claims-

    Make it legit.


    Anyone that new, isn't going to know how you all suggest how to play the game either.

    I mean, how do you know about afk fish farms?

    The likelihood is small. If it was to happen that the person had no contact with MC prior at all, they know no one that plays or play with no one that hasn't played before. The odds of them learning are quite high by the fact how many people know. I mean they have to learn how to make eyes of ender, but once they do... where does that go? The answers are the same in anyway you answer the "how do they learn where they go" question.

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  • #185 Jul 30, 2019

    Also, why do you need to defend Iron Farms or AFK Fish Farms if you acknowledge their lack of balance? Why do you feel the need to defend the freedom to effectively turn Survival Mode into some weird combination between Survival Mode and Creative Mode that doesn't need to exist?


    I don't need to. It's a choice. Just like I ignored AGTRigomortis' very next comment after our posts. Granted it was not adressed to me because he quoted you, and most likely thinks by you saying there is a lack of balance, that you needed to argue your point. Doesn't matter we both chose to move on.

    As far as some quasi survival/creative mode. The only thing you have to do in survival is get food, and depending on your difficulty setting, that is not even true. So is it really a true survival game? My kids when playing by themselves, use survival as a challenging creative map.

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  • #186 Jul 30, 2019

    Honestly, if people's only excuse to remove the AFK Fishing is that it gives free EXP, then you might as well remove all of the mob farms. Especially Enderman farms since they give a lot of EXP. In fact, just remove EXP in general. We'll see how long that lasts.

    Which is exactly what I want. XP is a mechanic that FORCES* you to make mob farms to get enough for enchanting and Mending (the latter of which makes no logical sense to me - if you wanted to repair an iron tool, you'd repair it with IRON, not some magical enchantment energy that feels like it's from a RPG).

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  • #189 Jul 30, 2019


    Anyone that new, isn't going to know how you all suggest how to play the game either.

    I mean, how do you know about afk fish farms?

    The likelihood is small. If it was to happen that the person had no contact with MC prior at all, they know no one that plays or play with no one that hasn't played before. The odds of them learning are quite high by the fact how many people know. I mean they have to learn how to make eyes of ender, but once they do... where does that go? The answers are the same in anyway you answer the "how do they learn where they go" question.

    Mojang debunked this reasoning with the introduction of the crafting book and advancements. They ensure a player completely detached from the "community" will understand how you are supposed to play from the game's explanations alone. So should there be an "afk fish farm" tutorial? Regular mob spawners are simple. You got the spawner, it shouldn't be too hard to figure out some basic farms. But afk fishing relies on inside knowledge on how block ticks work... or looking up the wiki.

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